View Full Version : Questioning EMU movies
scottie_uk
04-17-2010, 04:31 AM
Reading these forums and others its quite clear most members are against anybody selling rom sets (and rightly so), as you are selling copyrighted work, and more the point making profit off of someones hard work while they are not getting a penny.
Ok, so if that is the prevailing view, then I question the morality of emumovies charging for premium access to their servers. True, the cost of hosting the video's might be expensive, but with torrents circumnavigating the need for a central server, is this not profiteeering?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be rude (actually quite the oposite), but am trying to provoke discussion on the issue. I thank all those who have taken the time to make the videos, themes and most important of all Hyperspin, it looks great (I plan to contribute ZX Spectrum themes some day).
Scottie.
As long as the artwork and videos are made available for free....
Basic Membership allows you to:
* Start new topics and reply to others
* Download Files (250 mb/day) Note: Due to the high cost of bandwidth "Free" Members can not download files over 250mb
* Upload and share photos and videos in our galleries
* Utilize the Shoutbox to chat with friends
* And Much More!
As with the HyperSpin, ftp/server/site costs money. And as almost all content is available for free, there is no actual selling of this material, just selling a subscription for use of the ftp or more download bandwidth.
If this is against a persons principles... he/she might not want to be associated with any emulator scene.
scottie_uk
04-17-2010, 05:19 AM
Yes, but is this form of distribution needed?
Plus at the subscription prices they are charging they must be turning a profit, rather than breaking eve and doing it purely for the love of it.
Yes, but is this form of distribution needed?
Plus at the subscription prices they are charging they must be turning a profit, rather than breaking eve and doing it purely for the love of it.
Take emumovies, has seen several server upgrades, Circo needed a monster rig to pump out all those high quality work and in the case he turns a profit, I happily grant him that. Considering without him all front-end would probably still use images only and all the work he put in it.
Take the new HS transitions. If they could get those all for free, we wouldn't have to pay for it either. In this case it has been done professionally so it has to cost something. If it turned a huge profit, they probably would charge less for it, as for now, it's still a niche.
bodydump
04-17-2010, 06:36 AM
It's a bit different than roms, since Circo spends a lot of time and money making, capturing, editing, encoding and organizing tons of videos. After all that, he still allows you to download them from the site for free. Should he just pay for the website and server out of his own pocket?
vglord57
04-17-2010, 06:47 AM
Trust me, if Circo didn't love doing it, or any other contributing member for that matter, they would not do it. It is up to him on how he wishes his material to be released since he did make mot of it. As for turning a profit, I do not think it is a much as you think it is, and that's if there is profit at all. The Emumovies server recently got upgraded to a Gigabit line and now costs the equivalent of a small house payment if memory serves. Whatever isn't covered by the sub. fees I think Circo does pay out of pocket
BadBoyBill
04-17-2010, 07:04 AM
Profiting of your own hard work doesnt seem like a bad idea. Its alot of work, over 5 years of work now that he's put in and he's still not finished lol, give the dude a break. SQ videos are freely available via torrent as well as lots of free stuff in the downloads area, but I guess thats not good enough for some people.
Circo
04-17-2010, 09:37 AM
Currently I put in between 32 and 40 hours a week on the website, some weeks it's even more, more and more content is being offered for free each week. Hopefully thats enough, but most subscribers feel they are getting a killer deal, I mean come on $25 a year? In USD that is not alot of money at all, in fact it's 4 video rentals at blockbuster.
bodydump
04-17-2010, 11:41 AM
Currently I put in between 32 and 40 hours a week on the website, some weeks it's even more, more and more content is being offered for free each week. Hopefully thats enough, but most subscribers feel they are getting a killer deal, I mean come on $25 a year? In USD that is not alot of money at all, in fact it's 4 video rentals at blockbuster.
Don't worry Circo, I think most people around here understand and appreciate all the work you've put into the Emumovies project. Some people seem to just think that everything on the internet should be free. Hey, all netflix does is distribute copyrighted movies...I guess netflix online should be free. Keep up the good work and don't let the haters get you down.
chillinwater
04-17-2010, 11:53 AM
I appreciate your work Circo.
In fact I think my subscription is going to expire soon. I'll have to search your site to find out what the Lifetime donation is.
I dont think you'll have all the movies done in My lifetime even with the enormous amount of time you put in!
shimoda
04-17-2010, 01:23 PM
years of work, hours per week is not profiteering. Profiteering is taking advantage of a situation and squeaking money out of people at extreme situations. 25 bucks a year is not profiteering, it's very reasonable for what you get.
Circo
04-17-2010, 09:54 PM
I should also mention that as far as torrents go (and there is one btw) the only real way to ensure long term viability is on private ratio/driven sites. We are talking 200GB at a minimum of ratio driven content distribution. It's been done, it doesn't work. The emumovies FTP is updated almost daily in some form or another and also allows our members to share and distribute to a large group easily and instantly. Also not possible with torrents. It's an optional service, thats why torrents are available. They are another optional service. And the only reason there is not more Free content on the site is because it is incredibly time consuming to add content to the downloads section. But I am adding new content weekly, eventually I will be done :)
All I am saying is I can't understand your profiteering comments. But that is your choice, but I would also like to say that anyone who is serious about making video sets is a content contributer on the site and they get lifetime ftp access at no charge.
8itfrix
04-17-2010, 11:42 PM
Thanks Circo and all that are contributing! Anyhow 25$ is nothing compaired to what you are getting. It's hard and patient work to get to artwork/ video's etc. etc. done and have some respect for the guys spending tons of hours doing that for us Hypergeeks to be able to enjoy the best front end available out there. Be glad that Circo isn't asking for a 100$ fee as it's all worth it. Cheers guys and keep up the good work.
8itfrix
killars
04-18-2010, 12:04 AM
Circo has put in an extreme amount of time putting these vids together for everyone and this is to be commended. However, lets remember people do have choices and to focus solely on 1 site such as emumovies is somewhat silly. Its how the whole community is ruined after all - monopolisation. That being said though I agree with everyone that Circo deserves the credit for spending so much time putting these packs together....but again, less we forget those that help make hyperspin and emumovies what they are. Alot of content is submitted by users and this too is to be commended. The users who upload these DO NOT charge a fee or donation and these are the unsung heroes of this community in my opinion. Just remember everyone that when you donate its exactly that, a donation and your not actually paying for any service. Ftp access is given as a bonus and a thankyou. MY attitude to all this is - if you dont like something, change it. Making your own vids is`nt that difficult now you know....
All being said though im sure that it could`nt hurt to have users submitted vids available.
Lets not try to stick to one website, if we all did then Hyperspin and emumovies would never exist. We all have choices....use them i say.
Hyperspin and emumovies have every right to charge for their ftp access. Use it or don`t, make a choice. Lets not forget the thing that bought all of this together in the first place - a common love of gaming.
Trnzaddict
04-18-2010, 08:05 AM
I have no problem paying for $25.00 for here or emumovies. I have subscribed to both sites. Considering the obsessive compulsive work to try to archive movies and boxart for a myriad of games from the early 80's till present is quite a feat and i think the asking price for access to dl the files whenever you want is quite a bargain.
scottie_uk
04-18-2010, 01:27 PM
Ok, let's put some balance on here, and I don't want to be a meanie, but I am just provoking discussion.
If someone had a website where they offered arcade, computer and console roms for download, but charged the same rates it would be looked down upon right?
If someone had a site containing the home made posters of all the latest movies, pop and film stars then charged the same rates for access, i'm sure that would be frowned upon.
I too will probably pay Circo for a subscription as it is convenient and I think he's doing a sterling job. Thanks BTW.
My worry is if you are going to be doing it for a profit, however small, then royalties need to be paid.
Roms and games are a different story... Rom posters are not doing anything except for ripping and posting the roms.
These videos are created by Circo 1 by 1 by 1. He has to launch each game, record, and encode for each and every game. He takes time out of his day to offer this service. If you don't agree with the practices then go record your own movies and see how much time you loose.
Nothing we do on HyperSpin or on EmuMovies is for profit. Everything gets sunk back into hosting and bandwidth charges. I believe that our server is close to $500US per month, banner advertising didn't pay near enough to keep the sites up, if we didn't offer FTP access to supporting members then there wouldn't be any EmuMovies or HyperSpin.
scottie_uk
04-18-2010, 02:16 PM
Roms and games are a different story... Rom posters are not doing anything except for ripping and posting the roms.
These videos are created by Circo 1 by 1 by 1. He has to launch each game, record, and encode for each and every game. He takes time out of his day to offer this service. If you don't agree with the practices then go record your own movies and see how much time you loose.
Nothing we do on HyperSpin or on EmuMovies is for profit. Everything gets sunk back into hosting and bandwidth charges. I believe that our server is close to $500US per month, banner advertising didn't pay near enough to keep the sites up, if we didn't offer FTP access to supporting members then there wouldn't be any EmuMovies or HyperSpin.
500$ a month eek. Still it seems like you have some quality hosting. It's a great site.
How different is ripping and posting roms? To screen recording games. To me the effort involved is very similar. Except to dump roms you need all sorts of hardware.
It's all a grey area I suppose and best left unstirred by idiots like me. :D
I do admire the efforts of European sites such as the World of Spectrum, who do their best effort to keep it as legal and ethical as is possible. They have catalogued and have ready for download, or on line emulation almost the majority of games ever made for the spectrum. Like MAME, it is their goal to catalogue every game ever made for the Sinclair Spectrum range of 8 bit computers. The neat thing is that they have a team who actively seek out the copy-write owners and authors to seek permission to host the games. Where authors deny the permission the game images are immediately taken off the site. As a result of their ethical nature the site is getting so well respected and trusted in Europe that many copy-write owners give them exclusive rights to provide their games for free. With each catalogued game image, are stats, magazine reviews, adverts that appeared in the gaming press and user reviews and ratings. They are also doing the same for books written about the machine. Its a really great model, and no-one pays a penny, I don't know how they do it.
I would really like to get the Spin emulator (one of the best ZX Spectrum emulators) to work with Hyperspin. I plan to build some Hyper-Spin themes for the system.
SophT
04-18-2010, 04:53 PM
If someone had a site containing the home made posters of all the latest movies, pop and film stars then charged the same rates for access, i'm sure that would be frowned upon.
You mean like http://movieposterdb.com
which I am also a subscribing member at ;)
scottie_uk
04-18-2010, 05:15 PM
You mean like http://movieposterdb.com
which I am also a subscribing member at ;)
From what I can tell that site is not selling subscriptions.
Lashek
04-18-2010, 05:29 PM
From what I can tell that site is not selling subscriptions.
Check the FAQ at http://www.movieposterdb.com/FAQ
How can I download posters in their original resolution?
You need credits to download posters in their original resolution. For old movies a poster is 1 credit, for new movies (2007 and later) a poster is 2 credits.
You can earn credits by uploading new posters (so you do not have to pay to download), or you can buy credits. To buy credits, go to your dashboard.
SophT
04-18-2010, 05:30 PM
no but you buy "credits" to download the hi-res versions of posters. the lo-res are free. Kinda like emumovies ;)
scottie_uk
04-18-2010, 05:32 PM
Check the FAQ at http://www.movieposterdb.com/FAQ
Now earning credits by contributing articles is a very good idea, but paying for them not so.
scottie_uk
04-18-2010, 05:36 PM
no but you buy "credits" to download the hi-res versions of posters. the lo-res are free. Kinda like emumovies ;)
Are they? I thought you had to download a whole bunch of vids in a pack which is above the 250mb limit, even in low-res.
Lashek
04-18-2010, 05:37 PM
Yes, but both HyperSpin and EmuMovies rewards for contributing as well. This is how this community thrives, and those that contribute good, high quality stuff have the ability to join unique staff member groups that give instant-gold level access and it's benefits.
What you are complaining about is something that is common place to help recoup expenses, not to gain a profit, and MANY sites do this. Not only that, almost all of the same content is available for all users both here and on EmuMovies, just with some restrictions in place.
The incentives are merely a "thank you" to those who help out, or a reward for those who work their butts off for the community.
scottie_uk
04-18-2010, 05:52 PM
Great, then I must contribute. That's the way I like it.
Circo
04-19-2010, 02:50 AM
Are they? I thought you had to download a whole bunch of vids in a pack which is above the 250mb limit, even in low-res.
And that's why we have torrents for all but nintendo for the SQ packs.
shateredsoul
04-22-2010, 02:48 PM
arcade cabinet builders also make a profit.. so do people who make custom parts and art for cabinets... and people who sell their art based on games... and and
Yeah, I think it's fair... I sure as hell know I wouldn't make the videos my self =)
Memnoch9299
02-08-2012, 02:56 PM
Circo, great job on the video snaps on emumovies! Once I can afford to I am going to subscribe, just strapped for cash atm. I couldn't find the torrent for your SD stuff as I was considering obtaining it for now until I can afford to subscribe both here and there.
On a side note, I noticed Dazz is from Keller/Watauga. I am from Irving TX so that's just a short drive away. Kinda neat to see someone on here close to me
Just subscribed for the early subscription. I would say that its even cheap for the kind service you provide. Awesome work keep it up.
Circo, great job on the video snaps on emumovies! Once I can afford to I am going to subscribe, just strapped for cash atm. I couldn't find the torrent for your SD stuff as I was considering obtaining it for now until I can afford to subscribe both here and there.
On a side note, I noticed Dazz is from Keller/Watauga. I am from Irving TX so that's just a short drive away. Kinda neat to see someone on here close to meYea! Another DFW person! There is actually about 10-15 of us around this area.
Memnoch9299
02-09-2012, 08:18 AM
Awesome! I went ahead and got a sub to emumovies. I intend to get the gold level here once money permits in the next few days or week depending on how many jobs come in, I am a self employed PC & Mac Software and Hardware Sales/IT/networking etc guy through craigslist & facebook mostly. I love your setup and am very envious for sure. I hope to someday get an actual cabinet going but for now I am going to settle on just using my other PC and my 40 inch LCD via HDMI. I need to get a decent game pad and maybe a joystick too, the ones I had for PC are old and don't work well any more, no drivers for windows 7 for one so any recommendations would be appreciated
Circo
02-09-2012, 08:01 PM
Awesome! I went ahead and got a sub to emumovies. I intend to get the gold level here once money permits in the next few days or week depending on how many jobs come in, I am a self employed PC & Mac Software and Hardware Sales/IT/networking etc guy through craigslist & facebook mostly. I love your setup and am very envious for sure. I hope to someday get an actual cabinet going but for now I am going to settle on just using my other PC and my 40 inch LCD via HDMI. I need to get a decent game pad and maybe a joystick too, the ones I had for PC are old and don't work well any more, no drivers for windows 7 for one so any recommendations would be appreciated
For my media center I settled on a Microsoft 360 wireless adapter and two controllers. For me it has proven to be the best "All Around" controller.
aupton
02-10-2012, 04:24 AM
As a lifetime emu movies subscriber I'm eternally thankful for all the work Circo has done. The process of loading up each rom on each emu and creating both SD and HD videos in both .FLV and .MP4 formats is a daunting manual task. It must be a labor of love for the community and the end result because there's no way he is making profit given the amount of time and dedication he has given.
Thank you Circo!
naota
02-14-2012, 06:49 PM
I Love Hyperspin and emumovies. I am a supporter for both sites. I have a gold membership here and a lifetime subscription at emumovies because I know what the costs of running a community. I know the donations are going towards a good Cause. Keep up the good work.
Kodiak
02-15-2012, 06:26 AM
@ scottie_uk -
hmm fundamentally I'm puzzled by the question sparking this debate.
The reason I'm so puzzled is that for one, none of the manufactures or developers of those games had a hand in the creation of the video's. While it maybe true that their assets are present in the video's...that is the extent of it.
Further the fact that such videos are made available for free through various means, places the assets in the Fair-Use category under USA law.
This is also how News broadcasts don't have to shuck out a ton of cash every time a Starbucks or McDonalds and such logo's appear in them.
Now if Circo was peddling original sprites that would be out of bounds, just like selling roms would be.
By the way I've been given free access to EmuMovies and HyperSpin by contributing in both time and effort to advance both causes.